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Posted By: Slayer of Cliffracers on: 09/27/2008 15:13:18 ET
Subject: RE: Sedna as both the rejector and the rejected

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1. Lots of signs can have outgoing ears. However Ghandhi lacks that brutal square look that Scorpio's have.

2. Okay, we are really arguing about definitions here.

3. The main Conservative Party you are probably talking about is probably CEDA. The Catholic Party of Gill Robles. However this party had always advocated Theocratic Dicatorship all along. It didn't convert to become Fascist, it merely narrowly lost the election and decided that it couldn't use Democracy to bring down Democracy.

4. Remember that you can be quite nasty without bieng Fascist. Historically speaking the majority of regimes in history have been Authoritarian. Fascism however is a particular international trend, of which the Spanish Falange was the Spanish version. This is what I am reffering to when I refer to Fascism, not simply Authoritarianism, which is ancient.

5. That 'Party' didn't exist for most of the war. Franco himself was a (rather hypocritical) Monarchist, which was the final undoing of his regime. Eventually, after having murdered all their leaders, he was able to merge all the parties in one amalgamated party. However, only a segmant of the party was actually Fascist. Nationalist Spain was not the result of a single Fascist Party, the Party was the result of Nationalist Spain.

Of course, really all the various labels (Fascist, Monarchist, Carlist, Catholic Party etc) are actually just 'marketing brands' for the same poisonous product essentially. Franco's Spain wasn't purely Fascist, it was no more Fascist than it was Monarchist or Carlist or any other label.

As for the actual nature of the regime. Well killing political opponants is standard fare for all manner of regimes, Nationalism is too and the "National Socialist" economy is really just Corporatism, which was lifted from Conservatives all over Europe, who themselves lifted the idea from the Catholic Church rebuttals of Communism (or the other way around maybe).

I personally don't buy the argument that they were worried about the Canary Islands though. They didn't get majorly involved, because they were I think too Nationalist to care much about anything outside of Spain. Once they had brutally 'cleansed' Spain, I think they weren't interested in further war. Franco got what he wanted, aid in crushing Socialism and he didn't see the need to repay his benefactors.

To get back on track, we cannot deny that Fascism was an Ideology that was very current at a particular time. The time when I pointed out the prevailance of Sedna/Eris conjunctions. So Sedna does have something to do with Fascism I think, because of Sednas repressive side. The excluder side rather than the excluded side.

6. I don't buy what you are saying. Firstly, Trine is a weak connection compared to the Solar Opposition and secondly it is MC that governs destiny not the NN.

The revolutionary Uranus sits in Ghandhis MC, which makes perfect sense.

7. However only Uranus is really corresponds to the era in which it was discovered. Neptune is most assoisated with Religion and Pluto simply with Change itself. By this logic, a whole load of planets have the traits of the 21st Century.

8. Sacrifice is giving up something that you value. Hitler didn't sacrifice anything, because he didn't care about anything but the 'Aryan Race'.

Ghandhi was just a Pacifist.

9. Ah but what is Sedna then doing in George W. Bush's MH? I

10. Exactly. However what if one's free thought leads one to arrive a Fascistic conclusions? Fascists can be Rebels also can they not?

11. Uranus governs rebellion. I have observed this too much to doubt this is so.

Mercury governs dialectic, not Uranus.

12. Both Sedna and Eris are very Transpersonal don't you worry. They are the most Transpersonal planets of all, in them are found the political/social ideas of the time. Eris is the queen of the outer planets, the mistress of all the forces within, even Sedna.

Sedna represents both the Witchunters and the Witches. Sedna serves to enforce conformity to Eris, because it excludes those who dissent against Eris. All the excluded are 'bound' to Sedna. As Sedna aspects other planets, it represents where the excluded try to be included and invariably where the excluders are drawn also.

13. Sorry that was a Typo. Eris is the Conformist.

14. Exactly what I think. Just that radical Conservatism is still change to the social order. Change for the worse, but still change.

15. However you are forgetting that they do not move at a even speed through all the Zodiac Signs. At the moment, Sedna is moving faster than Eris. Eris has slowed down and Sedna sped up in order to prevent them from meeting.

16. Women act, men relate to others. Mars and Venus aren't male or female.

17. The reason I say that, is the sheer weakness of Feminism 'independantly' of the Piscean Communism/Socialism, until Eris went in Aries.

I see Feminism as bieng rather unsuccessful until Eris goes into Aries and MOST successful when Sedna goes out of Aries into Tauros.

Basically, Feminism was rather Sednan in the sense of it's fringe nature even among women, this weakness does not bode well for Sedna in Aries having an Erisian nature.

So I see Aries in Sedna as representing the repression of women by society (Eris). Aries and Sedna both in Aries, means the inclusion of women in society, but also their repression. Only when Sedna goes out of Aries is Feminism really able to take off.

7. I sort of agree with you. However remember the sheer strength of Fascism at the time. Nearly 50% of the Spanish population, voted essentially for 'Fascists'.

8. No doubt the Capitalist 'Democracies' were happy to see Communist Germany and Fascist Germany bleed eachother dry and then take the wealthiest and most technologically advanced areas of Europe.

However, Japan was never really the 'victim' of anyone. They were a nasty 'Fascist' regime that really mirrored Nazi Germany.

9. I hate Capitalism and Imperialism as much as you do Luis. I advocate placing all buisnesses under the ownership of the workers a situation legally enforced by a worker's state to avoid backsliding. I guess that makes me a Communist.

10. Your argument comes across as frothing fanaticism rather than a reasoned argument for your position.

You utterly fail to take into account your opponants position, dismissing them with a set of insulting epithets, forgetting that they have their own personal judgements on not exactly clear cut matters and you DON'T have the right to insult them.

11. However that is irrelavant. The point is that you agree with me. Exclusion is neccesery for some entities.

12. Obviously, however Abortion is actually the only tenet of Feminism that is actually seriously challenged openly.

13. However, the problem is a Cancer is not *a* human, a being with the potential for consciousness. That is to say there exists a material continuity between yourself and the single celled organism that you grew from. A Cancer can either be considered as what it is, malfunctioning cells inside someone's body or it can be considered a seperate life-form, in which case ants are far more advanced that it is.

But there is nothing obvious about it. There exists a gradual process of growth, of development from conception unto death. In certain biological states (like deep sleep) an adult organism temporerily reverts to basically a very large blob of tissue with potential future consciousness, just like the fetus.

Since the non-personhood of fetuses is evidently not so secure as you think, unless you wish to argue that someone who doesn't like you can go and bump you off in your sleep, then bieng in a biological state of unconsciousness cannot be so important.

I was not actually trying to start an debate about rights+wrongs what I was pointing out is the strong correlation between Sedna in Tauros/Eris in Aries and the legalisation of Abortion.

Now if you consider that the Victorians banned Abortion completely at any age when they found out all about human conception and the Feminists by en-large SUPPORTED this move and the fact that conception hasn't changed, it is evident that something Eris/Sedna related is at work here. Eris in Aries is one thing, but Abortion 'waited' until Sedna was in Tauros or nearly so mostly.

The logical reason for this, is that while the fire sign Aries is concerned with energy and independance, the Earth sign Tauros is concerned with raw matter and material survival. Tauros has a specific traditional connection with 'raw unevolved matter' also.

If you see Sedna in Tauros as representing the rejection of raw matter (fetuses) in the favour of energy and independance (viable fetuses+women) we can see not only why Abortion was so widely legalised, but also why the criteria is viability, not something else.

Because a society of Aries begin favours energy and independance as humans as the definer of societal membership and rejects 'raw matter' that is fetuses in favour of energy and independance (of the women). That is why the time is favourable to Abortion, regardless of the actual rightness of Abortion legalisation.

As for me speaking in Thatchers dialect. Why Thatcher? Funny isn't it, because I have a Libra Ascendant and Thatcher was a Libra.

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