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Posted By: Luis on: 09/25/2008 07:58:34 ET|
Subject: RE: Sedna as both the rejector and the rejected
Uranus however does not create revolutionaries as such, in the abscence of the right ideas, but it does create assertive people. People who won't compromise on their ideas.|
I have seen way too many Aquarians being way too eclectic. One admitted once: "I always say to my friends what they want to hear". It's a basically gregarious sign and I infer from that (and other stuff) that Uranus' influence, even if it can result in conflicts and extravagances due to the dialectics involved in this archetype, is the same kind. Uranus is the "cosmic parliament" (as opposed to the Sun being the "cosmic king").
I know I am very heterodox in this interpretation of Uranus and its influence but I still think I am right (probably this is caused by lack of element air in my natal chart and weak influence of Uranus itself: I don't feel that need to compromise).
The established time for Ghandhi is Libra.
I trust Astrodatabank's clasification for his BT as dubious. Also I look at Gandhi and I don't see in him a double Libran at all. Scorpio rising with prominent Saturn may be and I would also consider Virgo rising as well but Libra is, IMO, unlikely.
You don't quite grasp what I am saying. Islamism, Monarchism, Nationalism, your average vanilla militery dictatorship are all related to Fascism, but they are not Fascism because they are 'impure'. But Fascism was an International movement at the time of Hitler, all over the world there were movements that were inspired by Mussolini and were Fascist.
For instance, in Spain, the Nationalist forces were not mostly Fascist. Only a section of them, the Falange, were Fascists. The others were Theocrats, Monarchists and the rest. Indeed the Falange had to be basically sidelined by Franco, in favour of the others, because they were not Right-Wing enough. Their leader was murdered by Franco and the movement was usurped.
You don't quite grasp the nature and support base of Fascism. I infer that you are confused because you are a conservative. Whatever the case, Fascism in Spain as in Germany or Italy (or anywhere else) enjoyed the support of virtually all that array of forces that comprise the right wing. At some point they decided that Fascism was their choice, probably because of fear of Communism. That is valid for Spain as for Germany: when the Nazis were voted into forming government, they counted with the support of all the right-wing and even the social-democrats were dubious. Hitler may have never reached power if the conservatives and christian-democrats would not ahev supported him, and certainly not if the British diplomacy had not supported him as well (what they would later repent about), the same that they supported Franco soon after and forbid France from supporting democracy. The motivation behind was the fear of communism after the revolutions of 1917-18 and the growing unrest in the years of the Great Depression. Certainly in both cases (Germany and Spain) the main "threat" was the Communist party (Germany) or a Communist participated bloc with a strong social-democrat agenda, plus a huge anarchist union (Spain). The difference was maybe that in Spain the middle ground parties were still strong, while in Germany the middle ground parties had almost collapsed before 1933 (but still held the decissive votes between the Nazis and the Commies).
Well I'm afraid that Ghandhi is the Anti-Sedna, he is useful to understand what Sedna *is not*.
That can also be said of Hitler. I actually do not think either one embody Sedna particularly but it does seem that in both cases their activation of Sedna by tr. conjunction from Eris (political agitator) triggered some kind of activity, activity that is ethically most different but that in both cases is related to rebellion against the status quo and victimization and sacrifice.
... but makes me sick
That kind of sentences are what make me sick. I don't have to discuss with some sort of disrespectful know-it-all, specially if he/she doesn't know how to behave. A fruitful discussion can only arise from respect and, if we disagree, there should not be any major problem with that. But there is a problem if we start attacking each other: politeness and respect are not really costly and help a lot.
Sedna isn't about sacrifice. That is Saturn Luis.
Not exactly: Saturn is about realism, boundaries and discipline. These may imply sacrifice indeed but, in this sense, if Saturn is (in a sense) a masochist, Sedna is more a scapegoat, an unwilling victim. Sedna is not masochistic, she doesn't want to be a victim, she is a rebel... but, as you say well, she is victimized precisely because of her inconformism.
Minor planets do not have to be strictly distinct from major ones: they can well represent special aspects not well expressed by the more generalistic major planetary archetypes. They are more into details, subtleties, novel shades but, to a large extent, major planets alone can express the full thing.
What Sedna is about is those who society (Eris) has rejected and also the principle of rejection itself. Those who are abused often grow up to become the abusers.
Now like anything in Astrology, Sedna has a polarity, a moral duality within it. Sedna does indeed empower people to embrace what is rejected by Society (Eris).
You have two points here:
1. Abused people often grow to become abusers themselves (psychologically inheritance of abuse). Sedna may certainly have two sides and a danger like you mention in it. But also abused people who become aware can become healers themselves, much better than people who has not suffered that. There is a positive, constructive side of Sedna and (apart of rebellion, of the love of freedom) this can be one. Let's not forget that the ultimate outcome of Sedna in the legend is shamanic, transcendental, nourishing: Sedna is, as scapegoat victim, easily upset by abuse but providing her of due care can incite healing.
2. Eris as society. You are onto something but I do not fully agree with this: Uranus is society in its purest sense, Eris is social but she is more a manipulator of social relations (for good or bad, diplomacy has two sides: the compliment on the gloden apple can trigger a war, though one would say that it was just a well-intended present to the host). I also don't think that Eris rejects Sedna at all: the behaviours caused by their stellium in Aries are product of their hybridation, as happens with all conjunctions: Eris, the controversial social actor, mixed with Sedna, the rebel with a cause of love and freedom and the victim of the system, cause naturally social disruption, specially in such an active sign as Aries.
You see, it is only when Eris conjuncts Sedna that it is possible for the social order to truly self-destruct...
I don't see any self-destruction in WWII, just a crisis. More or less total change of social order has only happened with the French revolution and, to some extent, with the Russian revolution. Nazism is in this sense an important and brutal anecdote but an anecdote after all.
And, most importantly, Eris conj. Sedna has not actually happened in the sky (where we can read the general patterns) in all the time included in the ephemeris provided by Richard. I wonder when was actually the last time such stellium *actually* happened and when will it happen again. The transit on living peoples' charts is surely important but as important for Hitler as for Gandhi (as well as for anybody else in their generations, including many among those who Hitler and his minions trotured and murdered).
Because Sedna is the agent of social repression.
I cannot agree with this. I have known strongly Sednan people and they are not that at all. Myself, I said before I am not particularly Sednan but, on second thought, Sedna is the only planet together with Saturn in my first house. It's probably not as important as Saturn (which is placed somewhat before and aspects both luminaries) nor as Eris, which conjuncts the Asc. from the 12th house (with some doubts) but it is still a 1st house planet that trines the Sun and Mercury (have not detected any harsh aspects from Sedna in my chart).
So I am too somewhat Sednan and I am not any agent of political repression nor repression of any sort. I may have suffered bullying in school (for some time) and I may be a rebel but I'm no cop. And, as said, I have not detected that tendency in others either.
The position of women in modern society, is indeed unmatched in all human history. Now if Sedna represents the excluded and women are traditionally excluded, then Eris/Sedna could indeed be responsable for the rapid growth of Feminism. It does indeed make sense. other 'excluded groups' have also managed to rise up.
Yes. I am glad that you can see this. I agree re. other excluded groups too but Sedna has an obviously feminine nature, even if rebellious. The legend in any case is about a "feminist woman" in a sense: a woman who wants to choose her own life, even if it unfolds tragically. It's a true Inuit feminist tragedy actually.
We can see Sedna going into Tauros as a stabalising influence. Basically, the 'winners' get to cast out the defeated and forge a new system of repression. So Second-Wave feminism is really a consolidation, in which the victorious current of the Eris/Sedna period consolidates.
I agree re. consolidation: that is largely the difference between Aries and Taurus, whichever the transit. But I still fail to see her as representative of "a new system of repression". Not only I was born in 1968 with Sedna in 1º Tau but the other Sednan people I have mentioned, who are no cops at all, also have Sedna in Taurus.
One thing maybe worth mentioning re. the transit of Sedna into Taurus is that it happened in that decisive year of 1968 (with a prelude in 1967): when forth it presided over the celebrated Paris Spring (so called May Revolution) but when retrograde it presided over the invasion of Czechoslovakia. This appears as an interesting element. I do not need to check the transits for the night of Aug 20 1968 because that's precisely when I was born: Sedna is loosely conj. Saturn (25º Ari) but has no other harsh aspects, though Saturn (repression) does square the Moon (the people in historical astrology) and quincuxes Neptune (ideals). Also Mars is exactly at the midpoint of the lumnaries, trining Eris and NN in Aries. (All other major planets plus Pluto are in Virgo, making up a curious chain stellium; Ceres in early Scorpio squares the Sun).
However invariably this involves new systems of exclusion, such as Abortion and Political-Correctness.
You certainly appear a conservative - but I would not blame Sedna for it. :-)
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